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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Apr 26, 2007 4:28pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

Before I write this post- I am sorry about the bum steer on the scarlet fire 6 verse monster- I will find it and repost with a link.

Anyhoot- I have been thinking about this for awhile and have heard many reasons why certain songs were retired, for good. Others were retired, brought back, retired, like so many beanie babies.

The reasons I have heard seem logical- as a homage to pigpen- or certain songs were just better with Keith- or were sent packing because of Weir's slide playing (sic)

But is it possible that these movements of songs in and out of the repertoire were very calculated? If not all, a good majority of them? How many people kept going to shows long after they stopped having that same magic they had in the beginning and middle of their touring career?

Dylan songs entered the rep in big numbers at a time when Bob himself experienced a resurgence in pop culture. Sure the dead and Jerry always played dylan- but the introduction of Visions, Desolation ROw, Mobile, etc came in rapid succession with many staying- and some, alas, going far too soon (oh thin man, why did you have to go?).

Am I cynical? maybe. I do not feel that way- I am thinking how clever this is. Hell I would guess a good 25%-40% of the regular touring heads stayed on the road between 81 and 84- when they heard the next dark star. Even more importantly, how many new heads were taken into the fold, after star was reintroduced, hoping they would catch theirs? The same with Help Slip Franklins, to a lesser degree.

After the 84 star came the huge growth in the base- when the 89 star came along we were the largest fan base in live rock history.

What do you'all think?

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Poster: darkeyes Date: Apr 26, 2007 6:14pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

I was just hopping that the next show I saw would be as good as the first experience.

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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Apr 26, 2007 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

not sure if this was sarcasm or not- if so it is very funny. Like that first drug high....

For me, though, it was not the first show I sought- it was just the chance that the X factor was going to be in effect- it was, as an example, on 4/1/88- it was good Friday if I remember correctly- meaning there was also a full moon. The boys played in style that night- I still think a long detailed examination of the environmental,astrological, and current events of the time will receal some common patterns in the cosmos and culture that coincide with the most agreed upon "great" grateful dead shows.

Which leads me to the Liam challange

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Poster: darkeyes Date: Apr 27, 2007 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

Was not intending to be at all sarcastic. I had an awesome first show, "did my own Acid test", so to speak, and I wanted more, and more, and more. Unfortunately, I got on the bus late in life and had some catching up to do. Saw three shows within a months time. Wished I would have known sooner.

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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Apr 26, 2007 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

not sure if this was sarcasm or not- if so it is very funny. Like that first drug high....

For me, though, it was not the first show I sought- it was just the chance that the X factor was going to be in effect- it was, as an example, on 4/1/88- it was good Friday if I remember correctly- meaning there was also a full moon. The boys played in style that night- I still think a long detailed examination of the environmental,astrological, and current events of the time will receal some common patterns in the cosmos and culture that coincide with the most agreed upon "great" grateful dead shows.

Which leads me to the Liam challange

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Poster: Liamfinnegan Date: Apr 26, 2007 6:47pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

not sure if this was sarcasm or not- if so it is very funny. Like that first drug high....

For me, though, it was not the first show I sought- it was just the chance that the X factor was going to be in effect- it was, as an example, on 4/1/88- it was good Friday if I remember correctly- meaning there was also a full moon. The boys played in style that night- I still think a long detailed examination of the environmental,astrological, and current events of the time will receal some common patterns in the cosmos and culture that coincide with the most agreed upon "great" grateful dead shows.

Which leads me to the Liam challange

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Poster: lobster12 Date: Apr 26, 2007 5:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

shrewd or sad, you guys can be the judge. According to Blair Jackson's book on garcia, the Boston garden sales in the fall of 1994 were so off the mark that the band started soundchecking St Stephen to get folks to buy the remainder of the tix. So I guess liam, your theory isn't that far fetched.

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Poster: barongsong Date: Apr 27, 2007 10:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

I for one think it had to do, for the most part, with how good they were playing and probably how much practice time they had. I mean if you look at 88 - 95 you'll see that they broke out most of the old songs { We Bid You Good Night, Dark Star, Help Slip Franklin, New Speedway Boogie, Black Throated Wind, Attics, Death don't have no Mercy etc. etc., between 89-91,92 era when the band was at it's best. I bet if you look at the record there wasn't all that many song comebacks after 92 when arguably their playing started to wane.

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Poster: patkelley Date: Apr 26, 2007 4:52pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

That's an interesting theory. Although I'm not aware of them having difficulty selling tickets after, say, 1970, the idea that creating a hype would bring more people out to the shows makes logical sense. I dont know if it was really a commercial ploy, because no "regular" rock music fan would cement his decision to go to GD show for the possibility of hearing a 20 minute song with two short verses. But the Dylan songs might have had that effect. Ideally, I'd like to think they decided to play songs that they were into and that they thought we would get into, without thinking too much about the money side. But who knows?

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Poster: JodyC Date: Apr 26, 2007 7:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

scarlet/fire of which you spoke-apparently about a half hours worthhttp://www.archive.org/details/gd81-10-08.sbd.macdonald.7918.sbeok.shnf

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Poster: HiRoller Date: Apr 26, 2007 8:44pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

The Music Never Stopped right before Scarlet>Fire is seriously great. Jerry and Brent go into overdrive near the end of the jam and it sounds amazing.

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Poster: Chris Freedom Date: Apr 26, 2007 9:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

The Playing that follows is very good after some minor lyric problems in the first verse. The jam extends out and winds up at Terrapin!

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Poster: Chris Freedom Date: Apr 26, 2007 8:38pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

Hey Jody,

This Scarlet> Fire has much imput from both Phil and Brent. Thanks for posting the link. (It is a very long Scarlet jam)

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Poster: BryanE Date: Apr 27, 2007 10:06am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Breakouts- treasure to behold or shrewd marketing technique?

I, for one, have never given a moment's thought to any of that stuff. As the years went by and we all got older, the Dead included, my enthusiasm for going to shows never waned in the least, regardless of what tunes they were or were not playing. After my first Dead show, I spent over a year and a half wigging out on anything and everything I could hear from them, poring over photos from Europe '72's accompanying booklet or whatever else came my way. So when I finally saw them for a second time, I was taken aback when Jerry stepped on stage with his hair beginning to streak with a touch of grey. I was only a kid at the time, months shy of 17, and thought, "Whoa---the Dead are getting old," which was plainly an immature observation. The reason I mention it is that I soon learned how naively I had assessed their status at that point. Fact is, they were only in their 30's with many changes yet to weather in life and in music. Once I began to understand that their journey was as unpredictable as their music could be, I simply held on and enjoyed the ride. I always welcomed whatever they chose to add to the rotation in their playlist, be it Dylan, The Rolling Stones, The Beatles (I talked about that yesterday), Derek and The Dominoes, Willie Dixon, The Meters, Traffic, I Fought The Law, new songs from Phil (or anyone else, for that matter), or revivals of older originals, and did so without reading into it any why's or wherefore's as to the reason they decided to play them. I always assumed they played what they wanted to play when they wanted to play it, and that's all that mattered to me. In response to another point you make, Weir did take a considerable amount of flack for subjecting everyone to playing slide before he really became adept at doing it, but things like that never bothered me at all. I was only too happy to be there, the Dead's imperfections notwithstanding. Was there a surge in the audience's size following Dark Star in '84? Yes, but I don't see a connection between the two. I think there was just a whole lot of word of mouth going on at college campuses across the country at that time courtesy of fanatics like myself and my friends, Dead Heads that came of age in the late 70's and early 80's who raved incessantly to their friends about Grateful Dead concerts, sparking a whole lot of curiosity among them. When they learned for themselves that the rest of us knew what we were talking about, they told their other friends, who told their friends, etc.